gearmaker.org

Professional => Tutorials and techniques => Topic started by: TuffPossumGear on December 22, 2017, 11:39:18 AM

Title: In search of a (boxy) 3D corner tutorial
Post by: TuffPossumGear on December 22, 2017, 11:39:18 AM
So for belt pouches, shoulder bags and such, I need to do boxy 3D corner like this belt pouch:

(https://imgur.com/a/y2Rk5)
https://imgur.com/a/y2Rk5


The inside usually ends up looking like crap. Either it shifts and gets crooked, a wrinkle happens, or (the most often) a big looped stich on the back, even when my tension is perfect. By the time I sew a couple runs of stitching over it to fix it, it looks horrible.

The reason I ask, is I am a fairly inexperienced sewer in 3D objects. So I really dont know if what I am doing, is the right way. If there are any picture or video tutorials yall can share, that would be much appreciated!

I am using a SailRite LSZ-1 (I know, it sucks, but I was ignorant when I bought it), #20 needles, Gutermann/A&E Tera 40 unbonded polyester thread, and solution dyed 1000d CORDURA.



Thanks,
Jayberry


Title: Re: In search of a (boxy) 3D corner tutorial
Post by: ultimind on December 22, 2017, 12:09:14 PM
I was getting a lot of mis-alignment when I started doing three dimensional bags. I would lay out everything on paper and triple check my measurements and I knew everything was correct but when I went to sew, I'd get misalignments. The thing that helped me was pinning or clipping all your pieces together to ensure that everything lines up. It's an extra step but it helps. Only after practice and muscle memory with a particular pattern could I do it freehand (no clips or pins)... aligning the pieces as I went.

Others here with more experience would probably be able to speak more to this, but I would question why you're using unbonded thread. This may explain why you're getting wonky tension issues. I know on my Singer 111W I've had issues running unbonded V92 polyester thread. I switched to bonded and the problems resolved without any tinkering with the machine.

And for what they are I think the Sailrites are nice little machines. I'd love to have a portable with the monster flywheel... but for those prices I'll take a nicely used industrial.
Title: Re: In search of a (boxy) 3D corner tutorial
Post by: TwoWayTrauma on December 22, 2017, 07:17:06 PM
This one is pretty good.

Title: Re: In search of a (boxy) 3D corner tutorial
Post by: Gear Dynamics on December 22, 2017, 08:12:42 PM
The above method of making a box pouch is very fast, but does produce wastage. The taller the pouch, the more waste. The other down side is that with larger pouches, there is a lot of material to move around while you are sewing. It can also be difficult to position and sew your PALS webbing on, and looking at your example with the vertical webbing, you will loose the top seam to hide webbing ends into.

WhiskyTwoFour does a good tutorial here, of the other style of box that is commonly seen in tactical gear: http://gearmaker.org/index.php?topic=37.0
Title: Re: In search of a (boxy) 3D corner tutorial
Post by: TwoWayTrauma on December 22, 2017, 09:32:13 PM
^very true. You may also want to look up the old posts where people shared the old diytactical tutorials.
Title: Re: In search of a (boxy) 3D corner tutorial
Post by: TuffPossumGear on December 23, 2017, 09:37:01 AM
I was getting a lot of mis-alignment when I started doing three dimensional bags. I would lay out everything on paper and triple check my measurements and I knew everything was correct but when I went to sew, I'd get misalignments. The thing that helped me was pinning or clipping all your pieces together to ensure that everything lines up. It's an extra step but it helps. Only after practice and muscle memory with a particular pattern could I do it freehand (no clips or pins)... aligning the pieces as I went.

Others here with more experience would probably be able to speak more to this, but I would question why you're using unbonded thread. This may explain why you're getting wonky tension issues. I know on my Singer 111W I've had issues running unbonded V92 polyester thread. I switched to bonded and the problems resolved without any tinkering with the machine.

And for what they are I think the Sailrites are nice little machines. I'd love to have a portable with the monster flywheel... but for those prices I'll take a nicely used industrial.


Hmmm. My alignment is generally good, my main issue is technique in the actual corner.  If one piece is flat (say piece A. In the picture it is the one that the webbing is bartacked onto) forming one face, and the other piece goes around the turn (forming two faces of the geometric 3d corner. Call this piece B. It is the one with the zipper in the picture.), which side do I sew on? With side A facing up or B up? Snip the corner to get it to lay flat and (what I percieve, but may not be reality) compromise the long lasting durability of my seam? (I generally use 1/2" seam allowances)

Reason why the thread? It was what I started out with, because it was what Rockywoods had. Worked fine for all my 2d flat pouches. Finicky as all get out, but exploring other options always looked overwhelming. lol, bad reason. Need to take the leap and find a good bonded.
Title: Re: In search of a (boxy) 3D corner tutorial
Post by: TuffPossumGear on December 23, 2017, 09:41:14 AM
This one is pretty good.


I have made those styles plenty. But I am really only showing the belt pouch design in my picture for an example. I have a number of products like my rear shooting bag, belt pouch, etc. that require having one piece wrapping around the corner of a separate piece, if that makes sense.
Title: Re: In search of a (boxy) 3D corner tutorial
Post by: TuffPossumGear on December 23, 2017, 09:54:13 AM
The above method of making a box pouch is very fast, but does produce wastage. The taller the pouch, the more waste. The other down side is that with larger pouches, there is a lot of material to move around while you are sewing. It can also be difficult to position and sew your PALS webbing on, and looking at your example with the vertical webbing, you will loose the top seam to hide webbing ends into.

WhiskyTwoFour does a good tutorial here, of the other style of box that is commonly seen in tactical gear: http://gearmaker.org/index.php?topic=37.0


Ah, bingo! That looks like it might be  what I am looking for. Thanks!
Title: Re: In search of a (boxy) 3D corner tutorial
Post by: TuffPossumGear on December 23, 2017, 09:55:03 AM
^very true. You may also want to look up the old posts where people shared the old diytactical tutorials.

Will do! Thanks!
Title: Re: In search of a (boxy) 3D corner tutorial
Post by: Gear Dynamics on December 23, 2017, 02:46:41 PM
For the square corner design, it is essential to snip the spine (where the zipper is attached) at the corners, but more specifically where the side seam allowance is. This enables you to lay the part flat and sew that picece on using straight lines. For me, I always sew the spine to the top and bottom of both panels, before tackling the sides. I make a tiny snip to mark the middle of the spine and a corrisponding snip at the top and bottom of each panel, which makes alighnment simple. When sewing the tops and bottoms, I only sew up to my side seam allowance. As mentioned above, this is where the spine will be slit and redirected for the side seams.

The other, more trickier method, is to try a curved corner. In that case, proper alignment is critical. Calculating the material used to round the corner and taking into account the reduced radius due to the seam allowance, must be done accurately, or the result will be a wonky looking pouch.
Title: Re: In search of a (boxy) 3D corner tutorial
Post by: TuffPossumGear on December 23, 2017, 04:14:56 PM
For the square corner design, it is essential to snip the spine (where the zipper is attached) at the corners, but more specifically where the side seam allowance is. This enables you to lay the part flat and sew that picece on using straight lines. For me, I always sew the spine to the top and bottom of both panels, before tackling the sides. I make a tiny snip to mark the middle of the spine and a corrisponding snip at the top and bottom of each panel, which makes alighnment simple. When sewing the tops and bottoms, I only sew up to my side seam allowance. As mentioned above, this is where the spine will be slit and redirected for the side seams.

The other, more trickier method, is to try a curved corner. In that case, proper alignment is critical. Calculating the material used to round the corner and taking into account the reduced radius due to the seam allowance, must be done accurately, or the result will be a wonky looking pouch.

Ah, makes sense. I have always been scared to snip the turn of the "spine", for fear of weakening the overall integrity of the construction and leading to a hole/tear forming in the fabric at that corner down the road. Any tips? Do I snip all the way or stay back some? Would it be better with a little bit left un-snipped?
Title: Re: In search of a (boxy) 3D corner tutorial
Post by: Gear Dynamics on December 23, 2017, 05:45:05 PM
Best possible solution would be as WTF does and use a laser cutter, which melts the raw edges...unfortunately most don't have one handy. I snip the full seam allowance and I've never had an issue. We also use two layers of 500D on the bottom portion of the spine, which will likely take the most abuse, but I'd be equally confident in the tear strength of a single layer. Remember, either side of the snip, the material is sewn down to the panel, which prevents movement, and then bound with binding tape that overlaps, pulling the corner together. I use a 3/8" seam allowance and use 1" binding tape, which sews at about the same allowance. This hides the initial stitching and ensures the outside of the pouch has clean lines. I think it would take a tremendous amount of pressure to punch through that corner.

Here's the finished inside/outside corners:

(https://i.imgur.com/tyiaiYg.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/6LZm3h4.jpg)
Title: Re: In search of a (boxy) 3D corner tutorial
Post by: WBTactical on December 30, 2017, 09:00:12 AM
I too started using the box corner method from WTF and it is so much more forgiving/faster than the traditional curve corner method.

(https://i.imgur.com/VjvSooX.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Qz5BeDR.jpg)
Title: Re: In search of a (boxy) 3D corner tutorial
Post by: WhiskeyTwoFour on December 30, 2017, 12:34:51 PM
I too started using the box corner method from WTF and it is so much more forgiving/faster than the traditional curve corner method.

While WTF takes no credit for the method, we've found it the most expedient for manufacturing.  It has an optimal combination of speed, precision, and aesthetics when turned right side out.

Don't fatigue machine operators with unnecessary labor or add unnecessary cost in the name of a tough seam that will outlast the fabric.
Title: Re: In search of a (boxy) 3D corner tutorial
Post by: TuffPossumGear on January 03, 2018, 08:40:32 AM
Awesome! I tried that out last night and it worked fantastic! Thanks, yall!
Title: Re: In search of a (boxy) 3D corner tutorial
Post by: cdhtac on January 04, 2018, 06:53:05 AM
I have always rounded the corners of my back and front panels when making pouches, but now i just have to give this ago:)
Title: Re: In search of a (boxy) 3D corner tutorial
Post by: Gear Dynamics on January 04, 2018, 01:57:58 PM
Rounded does look nice, especially if you can laser cut everything with slits and alignment marks. It would be quicker still if one had a dedicated binder set up for tight curves.
Title: Re: In search of a (boxy) 3D corner tutorial
Post by: cdhtac on March 13, 2018, 12:14:42 AM
The problem i've had with this technique, is that with thinner pouches, the zipper slider seems to snag into the binding tape on top corners.. any idea how to counter this, apart from making  the piece where the zipper attaches, wider?
Title: Re: In search of a (boxy) 3D corner tutorial
Post by: Bootcat on March 13, 2018, 05:16:48 AM
I tend to cut the corners at 45 which makes them more flexible too.
Title: Re: In search of a (boxy) 3D corner tutorial
Post by: Gear Dynamics on March 13, 2018, 09:13:46 AM
With the straight method, the slider can snag on the binding corners, if the pouch is narrow. It does limit the design to larger pouches.

Bootcat, Im interested to see you 45 corners.
Title: Re: In search of a (boxy) 3D corner tutorial
Post by: cdhtac on March 13, 2018, 01:09:23 PM
I was thinking that instead of binding all 4 sides from separate pieces of binding tape, i'd use a single piece of tape, and just bind the corners with a 90 degree turn in the tape. I'll try that one tomorrow.
Title: Re: In search of a (boxy) 3D corner tutorial
Post by: Gear Dynamics on March 13, 2018, 10:29:35 PM
I think you could bind one side, front or back, with one continuous piece. Making the corners look good might be difficult. Post a pic if you have success.
Title: Re: In search of a (boxy) 3D corner tutorial
Post by: stimpy on March 14, 2018, 12:02:53 AM
I use the 45 technique as well. It is the same technique you use @geardynamics but instead of making 1 cut for the 90 corner. I make a cut and 2 cm further i make another cut. Both in 45 angle. The time you loose buy making the extra cuts is gained by binding in a continuos piece. There is a tutorial on here somewhere that explains the technique. I could post some pictures from the process when i get home friday. I am in the field right now
Title: Re: In search of a (boxy) 3D corner tutorial
Post by: cdhtac on March 14, 2018, 01:48:09 AM
Looks pretty ok.. just make sure you fold the tape in the direction you are sewing :)

(https://i.imgur.com/Fcif23D.jpg)
Title: Re: In search of a (boxy) 3D corner tutorial
Post by: Gear Dynamics on March 14, 2018, 10:28:31 AM
Looks great. What are using for a binder?
Title: Re: In search of a (boxy) 3D corner tutorial
Post by: cdhtac on March 14, 2018, 11:42:59 AM
Thanks!

I bind by hand; i've tried a couple of binding attachments but i never really figured those out :)
Title: Re: In search of a (boxy) 3D corner tutorial
Post by: Gear Dynamics on March 14, 2018, 04:30:09 PM
Doing this by hand, how long do you figure it takes you?
Title: Re: In search of a (boxy) 3D corner tutorial
Post by: cdhtac on March 15, 2018, 02:18:50 AM
The binding? All in all, maybe a few minutes. It doesn't really matter to me, as i only do custom work, not large batches.
Title: Re: In search of a (boxy) 3D corner tutorial
Post by: Gear Dynamics on March 15, 2018, 12:47:47 PM
Looks great though!
Title: Re: In search of a (boxy) 3D corner tutorial
Post by: WBTactical on March 15, 2018, 05:02:17 PM
Looks pretty good for a hand binded pouch
Title: Re: In search of a (boxy) 3D corner tutorial
Post by: cdhtac on March 16, 2018, 12:20:40 PM
Thanks guys!