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Professional => Vendors and sources => Topic started by: thewolf on October 25, 2018, 08:18:44 AM

Title: first-spear tubes
Post by: thewolf on October 25, 2018, 08:18:44 AM
Does anyone know where to source 2 inch tubes? I'm not looking for a large quantity.
Title: Re: first-spear tubes
Post by: sawlaw1 on October 25, 2018, 11:18:52 AM
You have to email First Spear, then they will send you a form with pricing and an EUC. You sign the EUC, email it back and get it approved. Once that is done you can call them on the phone and order them. You promise you aren't going to sell the buckles or anything made with the buckles outside the US. IIRC the company that has the rights to outside US sales doesn't sell them and you can't interfere with the arrangement between FS and I think it's a French company that has the overseas distribution.
Title: Re: first-spear tubes
Post by: mogensbeck on October 25, 2018, 11:50:38 AM
in Europe it is NFM that has the licens agreement. Atleast we have the 2M ROC alternative
Title: Re: first-spear tubes
Post by: Gear Dynamics on October 25, 2018, 09:36:53 PM
We have applied to be able to use FS Tubes as an OEM. There was an application form, an avidavit and you must provide a written company profile, along with industry references. No guarantee they will approve.
Title: Re: first-spear tubes
Post by: Bootcat on October 27, 2018, 01:30:59 AM
NFM doesn't sell Tubes to anyone AFAIK.
You can also use the new Duraflex buckles that were designed for Lindnerhof in the first place.
However the ROC buckles are better noted by users when compared to Tubes.
Title: Re: first-spear tubes
Post by: mogensbeck on October 27, 2018, 04:35:32 AM
Where do you buy the linderholf buckles?

The Danish police are getting new bodyarmor from NFM and one of the feedbacks from the tactical system is that the FS tubes makes alot sound. Never heard this about the ROC buckles.
Title: Re: first-spear tubes
Post by: essal on October 27, 2018, 05:35:30 AM
NFM sells Tubes via Norsegear for Ä18,43 a pop...
https://www.norsegear.com/firstspear-tubes-set-4-acetal-tan-499 (https://www.norsegear.com/firstspear-tubes-set-4-acetal-tan-499)

What about the new National Molding variant? Anyone tried them? Should be easier to source in general.

Sound was apparently a problem with 1st gen Tubes. Would be surprised if NFM had a lot of old ones laying around.
Title: Re: first-spear tubes
Post by: GoBliNuke on October 27, 2018, 07:51:40 AM
Maybe this http://soldiersystems.net/2018/09/25/mdm-18-national-molding-tactik-buckle/ will be an option.
Title: Re: first-spear tubes
Post by: mogensbeck on October 28, 2018, 03:55:47 AM
Pretty cool they have them in 1inch
Title: Re: first-spear tubes
Post by: sodjer on October 28, 2018, 12:45:22 PM
sorry guys I posted this already in the wrong part but it's still relevant https://www.psigear.net/
Title: Re: first-spear tubes
Post by: BergspitzeCustoms on October 28, 2018, 05:45:43 PM
sorry guys I posted this already in the wrong part but it's still relevant https://www.psigear.net/

Have seen these for some time, and each time I see it I look at the two little attachment loops and think "Man, that's a small piece to take all the strain of whatever you are using it for."  Torque is a thing, and I try to over-engineer everything just because I know people will push it to its limits.  Even with the history behind FirstSpear and Eagle, I have had no problem working with them whenever I needed Tubes, and although they aren't perfect, I have yet to have a customer say they don't like them.

That being said, the Tactik buckle is pretty sweet, and although I'll still undoubtedly have requests for Tubes on the individual request side, I know at work we're looking forward to widespread availability of the Tactik...
Title: Re: first-spear tubes
Post by: cdhtac on October 29, 2018, 12:55:23 AM
There is also a European option made by 2M due emme (what a strange name)

https://www.tacticaltrim.de/2M-ROC-80-Quick-Release-Set-Tan_1

I just ordered a couple to modify my own plate carrier and do some field testing
Title: Re: first-spear tubes
Post by: Bootcat on October 29, 2018, 05:51:11 AM
NFM sells Tubes via Norsegear for Ä18,43 a pop...
https://www.norsegear.com/firstspear-tubes-set-4-acetal-tan-499 (https://www.norsegear.com/firstspear-tubes-set-4-acetal-tan-499)


To be specific, the issue is not with buying Tubes as much as buying them at a reasonable wholesale price. Anyway that ship has sailed as far as we're concerned.
Title: Re: first-spear tubes
Post by: thewolf on October 29, 2018, 08:25:23 AM
There is also a European option made by 2M due emme (what a strange name)

https://www.tacticaltrim.de/2M-ROC-80-Quick-Release-Set-Tan_1

I just ordered a couple to modify my own plate carrier and do some field testing

Ya, I think i'm going this route. Thanks for the help.
Title: Re: first-spear tubes
Post by: essal on October 29, 2018, 09:23:24 AM
NFM sells Tubes via Norsegear for Ä18,43 a pop...
https://www.norsegear.com/firstspear-tubes-set-4-acetal-tan-499 (https://www.norsegear.com/firstspear-tubes-set-4-acetal-tan-499)


To be specific, the issue is not with buying Tubes as much as buying them at a reasonable wholesale price. Anyway that ship has sailed as far as we're concerned.
The "..." replaced a fairly long rant about the pricing that I figured was too unprofessional to post here ;)
Title: Re: first-spear tubes
Post by: mogensbeck on October 29, 2018, 11:14:29 AM
Just got email from National Molding and they can not sell the Tactik buckle outside US just like FS tubes. So European companies will have to stay with the 2M ROC buckle.
Title: Re: first-spear tubes
Post by: essal on October 29, 2018, 12:20:17 PM
Just got email from National Molding and they can not sell the Tactik buckle outside US just like FS tubes. So European companies will have to stay with the 2M ROC buckle.
Did they give any reason as to why? FS won't sell to Europe because of their partnership with NFM, which makes sense from a business perspective.
Title: Re: first-spear tubes
Post by: mogensbeck on October 29, 2018, 02:20:23 PM
Quote
Did they give any reason as to why? FS won't sell to Europe because of their partnership with NFM, which makes sense from a business perspective.

No only at the moment they are not selling outside US. Then I asked why and then I was told the buckle is still in prototype fase. So I am staying positive and hope in the future they will allow sale in Europe.

I dont know if it was a good idea, from a busniess perspective, because now the 2M buckle will be used by most european tactical companies where FS could have earned money on the buckles sold here.

 
Title: Re: first-spear tubes
Post by: cdhtac on February 28, 2019, 03:47:54 AM
I have just finished testing the 2M buckles with my work plate carrier (i made a retrofit cummerbund with 2M buckles for it, to replace the standard cummerbund)

After using it for a few months (during which i wore my PC, on maybe 30 days) i came to conclusion that the 2M buckles are total crap.

Why? Yeah, you can remove the PC very quickly, but putting it on is a whole different story. The first buckle usually goes without problems, but the other one doesn't, (if one adjusts the PC to sit tightly on the torso (like you should) ). When the PC is on, you cant really see the buckle properly and because it's not like an SRB that you simply snap on, i always struggle with the second buckle. Sometimes i even have to put the PC on in front of a mirror, so that i can close that damn buckle.

And the other issue is the retarded spacing it has for the 40mm webbing it attaches with. How about, instead of using two 40mm slots, they would use three 25mm slot spaced according to Pals matrix.. that would reduce the seam thickness because the buckle could be attached into the same webbing that makes up the Pals.. instead of having holded over 40mm webbing in the seams of the cummerbund, with pals on top of it  (if you want the pals to come all the way to the edge of the cummerbund)

Luckily i only bought a couple of sets of those buckes.. i don't think the designers of that buckle have any experience about sewing gear, or even wearing gear in the first place
Title: Re: first-spear tubes
Post by: Gear Dynamics on February 28, 2019, 08:34:24 PM
Very interesting cdhtac. I wasnít going to post anything, but after reading the account of your experiences with the 2M buckles, Iím inclined to share mine as well. I too, have a cummerbund that is a prototype using the ROC buckles, and like you, Iíve been using this nearly every day. My thoughts on the ease of refastening a disconnected ROC buckle on a cummerbund echo your own. I prefer my plate carrier to be tight on the body, so it does not move around when I run or move aggressively and Iíve found that if I adjust the cummerbund tightly, and then disconnect, it is very challenging to refasten. So much so, that Iíve switched back to a simple Velcro cummerbund. If the cummerbund has no tension, itís a lot easier to engage the buckle.

As for the attachment slots, Iím less bothered by the choice to have two wide slots, as the attachment for our buckles would be with laser cut laminate, and thus not really effect the seam thickness.
Title: Re: first-spear tubes
Post by: Bootcat on March 01, 2019, 04:48:25 AM
Our experience has been different with ROC buckles.

We now have a few hundred carriers out with them. Some in daily LE use and some went to harsh places (jungle, desert, maritime).
A few have broken their locking latches (from pulling too hard on them) but even then the buckles still function. You could break two of the four lugs (ROC80) and the buckles remain operational. The Tubes won't work if you break their locking latch and replacement buckles are hard to find (the French Army sends the whole NFM carrier for repair when that happens).
Having 2 wide slots makes for an easier replacement compared to 3 narrow slots - we cut ROC buckles to offer a repair version until 2M has them available.
The alignment can be a PITA but the goal is to prevent the relative rotation of the two pieces from straining the locking lug.
Unless you have a non-elastic cummerbund there's just a proper gesture to learn to fasten them.

Besides, it's not like we have a lot of options in Europe. The Nat Molding one could be a better design but we can't buy them so who cares.
Title: Re: first-spear tubes
Post by: mogensbeck on March 02, 2019, 05:44:59 PM
I had a similar experience first time I used the ROC buckle for a platecharrier. My problem was the way I had set the direction for the release since ROC only worked one-way.
I had first put it up so you cutaway down because I thought it would be a more natural way to release, but it made it very hard to reconnect the buckles.

What I did was to change the direction so it released upwards,  this solved my problem. Because it was much easier to click the buckle together when you push the buckle downwards into the holes then upward where you can not see what is going on. 
Title: Re: first-spear tubes
Post by: Gear Dynamics on March 02, 2019, 06:27:55 PM
I also had the parts release downward. Iíll need to test the other direction before passing judgement.
Title: Re: first-spear tubes
Post by: Bootcat on March 03, 2019, 09:18:17 AM
This should be a no-brainer... if the latch is broken the buckle set for a downward release will self-release down  :D
Title: Re: first-spear tubes
Post by: cdhtac on March 04, 2019, 06:01:51 AM
Hmmm, sounds like turning the buckle might be a solution, to some degree, at least. I will have test it by installing the cummerbund of my PC upside down once i get back to work. But i am still a bit doubtful whether it works well enough to keep me getting back to the velcro cummerbund.

It still doesn't change the fact that you have to first be able to aling the buckles, then push them together, and then pulling the other side up.. and all this without seeing what your hands are doing and while having to pull some slack from the cummerbund.