Author Topic: First time doing PALS webbing and it's not quite right.  (Read 2071 times)

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baconfatlabs

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First time doing PALS webbing and it's not quite right.
« on: January 13, 2017, 10:15:32 PM »
To preface this, I have access to a laser cutter.  I made a gridded PALS webbing layout tool using some acrylic (not as nice as the one I've seen here but functional and the price of free on the acrylic was right).  I etched in guide lines in my design file and then highlighted them by filling with acrylic paint.  The holes have 2" on center spacing vertically and 1.5" on center horizontally.  I tested it by laying out the following:


It worked well for the webbing, however I noticed that when I stitched it, the void's pulled closer slightly and now it's less than an inch between the two stringers, albeit only a slight amount.  I'm largely eyeing the end lock stitching as the culprit of the pull.  It webs okay I guess with nylon straps since there's some wiggle room to "bend" the grid a bit but it's not as clean as it could be.  I don't have a lot of experience with MALICE clips but it would seem that the fit would need to be better for a object that was far more rigid.  My question is, what kind of pull compensation would you use to mitigate the shrinking I'm experiencing?  Is that built in to the template you use, or do I just need to get better at avoiding pull all together?  Is this a non issue?This is 1" webbing on 1000D.  Thoughts?



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Gear Dynamics

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Re: First time doing PALS webbing and it's not quite right.
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2017, 10:41:10 PM »
I tried all sorts of jigs and templates to try and save time when sewing PALS webbing. Nothing worked as well as my method below. My old PALS sewing technique was to mark a chalk line along where the top of the first row would go, then I'd use a piece of HDPE cut to 1.5" to quickly mark out the vertical lines. After that, I'd start from right to left, tacking down the first row. My stitching would be approximately 10 SPI, shorter than my normal SPI. I'd start the needle in the centre of the webbing and begin by sewing down to the bottom, but trying not to go past the edge, reverse all the way to the top, back to the bottom, back to the top and then back to the middle. Then I'd raise the foot, and move laterally to the next channel. When the first row was down, I'd start the next row by using a 1" HDPE spacer butted up to the bottom of the first row, and I'd slide it along as I went. I got pretty quick at the process.

No matter what you do, the stitch will pull the fabric tighter, especially if you run the line off of the webbing. You'll notice that the lighter the material, the more adverse effect the stitching will have. You can combat this a bit by layering material properly and never sewing PALS to just one layer. That's one of my self imposed rules.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2017, 10:52:04 AM by Gear Dynamics »

Bootcat

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Re: First time doing PALS webbing and it's not quite right.
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2017, 06:06:50 AM »
Your problem arises because you extend the stitching past the edge of the webbing, pulling the fabric slightly up.
The best way to combat this is stitching 22-24mm seams on 25mm webbing.
Another way, prescribed in USMC and US Army specs, would be to have 1+1/8" between PALS instead of 1". However I found this unnecessary with coated fabrics, and the Euro standard is 25mm, so closer to 7/8" than to 1+1/8".

Side note: the metric PALS grid is slightly wider (40mm instead of 38mm) but distinctly lower (25mm instead of 25,4mm), makes a real difference when designing a 15" high load bearing vest for example.

stimpy

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Re: First time doing PALS webbing and it's not quite right.
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2017, 08:37:13 AM »
Did not know there is something as a metric pals grid. I use inches to mark my pals grid. All the rest is in cm

baconfatlabs

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Re: First time doing PALS webbing and it's not quite right.
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2017, 12:37:01 PM »
Thanks for the advice from everyone.  From the sound of it, the consensus seems to be to not overstitch.  One of the conceptions I had (probably a misconception) that overstitching made it stronger and more resilient to being pulled loose if something gets between the edge of the webbing and damaged the stitch line.  Is this a non-issue?  On some mass produced grids I see stitch lines that are continuous from rung to rung without pulling, so that's likely what made me wonder.
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essal

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Re: First time doing PALS webbing and it's not quite right.
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2017, 07:24:53 AM »
Did not know there is something as a metric pals grid. I use inches to mark my pals grid. All the rest is in cm
There isn't, but there is. Any time a military writes a specification for a vest or pouch, they usually do it in mm (since they are Europeans after all). So they round all the numbers, so all of a sudden an inch is 25mm instead of 25.4mm and 1.5" is 40mm instead of 38.1mm. Grind my gears. The proper PALS ask for 1" and 1.5", so I find it very weird when people on purpose shave off or add a tiny bit "just because it's easier math".

To bacon, don't go off the edge. The step-down is usually where it causes the most shrinkage. And do what Gear Dynamics says.
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baconfatlabs

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Re: First time doing PALS webbing and it's not quite right.
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2017, 02:59:15 PM »
To bacon, don't go off the edge. The step-down is usually where it causes the most shrinkage. And do what Gear Dynamics says.

Thanks, will be more careful next time.  Luckily I'll be getting some more webbing practice really soon!
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Stepan1983

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Re: First time doing PALS webbing and it's not quite right.
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2017, 10:59:26 AM »
With laser you dont have to make this primitive holes, you can make entire lines instead for your PALS marking.

WBTactical

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Re: First time doing PALS webbing and it's not quite right.
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2017, 05:21:21 PM »
I found that having a second layer of 500D or marine vinyl fabric helps with reducing shrinkage