Author Topic: Thread: I'm in need of some info  (Read 307 times)

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StonePhotoGear

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Thread: I'm in need of some info
« on: November 24, 2017, 06:22:28 AM »
Hey all,

I've been using both bonded nylon and bonded poly from John Howard, and the bonded nylon has been having major issues with thread fraying. Almost like its not truly bonded together...
Particularly in the bartacker. I run the gold titanium needles from Groz in all my machines, and that helps, but it's getting a bit maddening...

Anyone here stateside using Amann? I'm moving over to bonded poly thread for most of my use, as it is better for the gear I'm making, being out in the elements, sun exposure, etc.
I'm a bit mystified as to LH vs RH twist, and how it effects the operation of each machine? I have an assortment of different machines, so having congruity between machines in terms of thread would be nice. As would a wide(r) range of color options.

thx,
Dan

Bootcat

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Re: Thread: I'm in need of some info
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2017, 06:54:59 AM »
In our French company we use Zwibond 40 in most machines and Serafil 40 in the bartacker.
Less stiff than the bonded nylon A&E thread used previously and satisfactory for all our applications.
I'm not aware of a choice of twist direction for these threads.

SunriseTacticalGear

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Re: Thread: I'm in need of some info
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2017, 08:42:27 AM »
Dan,
I'm not sure if you got a bad batch of bonded nylon from John Howard, which I kinda doubt.
I have used their house branded for years (which is rebranded A&E).
I would suggest in polishing your hook, or better yet, getting a new hook for your bar tacker. A few years ago I was having trouble maintaining a constant stitch on my bar tacker, I installed a new factory Juki hook and the problems went away. Also check your needle to hook timing, all rules apply just like on a regular sewing machine.
Scott

Gear Dynamics

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Re: Thread: I'm in need of some info
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2017, 12:43:18 PM »
We have had issues with A&E thread fraying/untwisting in our tacker as well. Doesn't seem to happen all the time, but it's painful when it does. After speaking with our technician, he also mentioned twist direction, although I don't understand how that can be an issue. I mentioned it to our A&E Rep and he said there's no such thing and dismissed it. If you find a solution, post results. We've tried everything from adjusting tensions, speed, cleaning, polishing, new needles, different sizes and types of needles, even a new thread size. The one common denominator is the thread.

StonePhotoGear

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Re: Thread: I'm in need of some info
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2017, 08:51:56 PM »
I had this new (to me) Brother 42 stitch bartack machine CLA'd back in September when I drove up to NorCal to buy it. My repairman installed a new hook, and adjusted everything. It seems the problem is the thread, as I can run cheap Chinese bonded nylon through it just fine, but the JH stuff leaves a really frayed tail on the needle after cutting. Knives are sharp, and cut cleanly.

So I can only think that it's the thread
« Last Edit: November 25, 2017, 08:33:17 PM by StonePhotoGear »

Bootcat

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Re: Thread: I'm in need of some info
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2017, 03:13:23 AM »
Forgot to mention but yes, the nylon thread was fraying due to heat buildup for instance when sewing 4 layers of 55301 - no such problem with the Serafil polyester thread. Give it a try!

Gear Dynamics

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Re: Thread: I'm in need of some info
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2017, 06:35:07 PM »
Is anyone running their thread through a lubrication tank? That is something we have not tried. Our machine has a little built in one that can be used or bypassed as needed.

StonePhotoGear

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Re: Thread: I'm in need of some info
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2017, 08:39:42 PM »
I run my thread through the lubrication device on my bartack machine, using liquid silicone designed for the purpose. Looking at the next upgrade, I'll be going with a digital machine that has a speed control, so when tacking heavy lays, the needle isn't going a million mph like on most cam machines.

I also plan to run a small tube to blow compressed air at the needle to facilitate cooling. The large field pattern machines usually have this, and it seems to be effective in reducing heat buildup in the needle.

-Dan

BOgear

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Re: Thread: I'm in need of some info
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2017, 05:08:49 PM »
From experience nylon is greatly affected by heat and humidity. In Brisbane, Australia we have wild heat and humidity variations and often suffered from what you are talking about, especially when run on a machine at speed (ie. bartacker at full capacity). One day the nylon thread would run fantastic, the next it would be fraying and require unpicking and reworking every second bartack, and then back to normal in a couple of days (all from the same spool/cone of thread).

Do the basics:
  • Trace the thread from the cone to the needle. Any where the thread comes in contact with the machine check for burrs. De-bur/polish as needed
  • Remove all tension disks and double check
  • Check for small burs underneath the thread uptake, and above the needlebar. (even a small nick here can cause thread issues)
  • Check your needle. REPLACE it: it's cheap. If in doubt, replace it again (Your Groz Gold Titaniums are the best needles I have found. Keep buying 'em!)
  • Check your needle is inserted correctly
  • Check for any burrs in your feed dogs, or plate
  • Check timing on machine, slightly out may not strike needle, but may abrade the thread ever so slightly
  • Check for burrs in shuttle and underneath machine

Still no luck? Probably is the thread. Run it between your fingers along a length. It should feel smooth. If it feels "textured" or "overly rough" chances are it has been affected by heat or humidity... Check across a couple of different spools/cones. It might just be the current cone you are using. Always buy quality, go straight to a trusted supplier; Amann, A&E, or my favourite, Coats.

Still no luck?

Our solution? Switch to Bonded Polyester for the bartacker. We found it ran smoother. Plus even a simple check of running it through your fingers resulted in a smoother feel. Best bit however was we could run the machine at a much faster speed, getting more production capacity from a simple and relatively cheap adjustment. Yes Bonded Poly thread is slightly more expensive on paper, but when speed output is factored in, it ends up cheaper ;)

As for different twist direction; I've never had to specify, but know you can get it in different twist directions. Only once have I got a spool which was opposite to normal. It basically untwisted in our machine. Didn't fray, but when stitched you saw three strands where there should be a single stitch. I don't think this is your issue. I really think it is humidity/heat affected nylon...
BOgear: http://www.bogear.com.au   |   Blog: http://www.bogear.com.au/blog   |   Instagram/Facebook/Twitter: @bogear

Stoner63A

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Re: Thread: I'm in need of some info
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2017, 06:23:13 PM »
I think its the Western machines like Singer, etc that use a Right Hand Twist thread while the Chinese/PRC machines use the Left Hand Twist thread.