Author Topic: 55301 Webbing and Suggested Needle Type  (Read 261 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

ag25

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1
  • Likes Given: 0
55301 Webbing and Suggested Needle Type
« on: May 07, 2018, 08:12:47 PM »
I've been trying to sew some 55301-style webbing but am running into a tension issue.
When I sew with the direction of the webbing, everything works as it should, I set the tension and the threads lock in nicely.

Where I start to run in to problems is when I sew across the webbing; regardless of how much tension I apply, I end up not being able to pull the bobbin thread up into the webbing.

I'm curious what size and type of needle you have had success using with this type of webbing. Currently I am using a size 20 universal needle, with size 69 thread on a Juki-563

Image of me testing different tension settings (Green is bobbin thread):



« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 08:15:26 PM by ag25 »

Globe

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 122
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 8
  • Likes Given: 10
Re: 55301 Webbing and Suggested Needle Type
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2018, 09:08:24 PM »
I use:
21 with #69
23 with #90
25 with #138

I am always able to tension these threads with common military weight webbing and fabric. 
« Last Edit: May 08, 2018, 04:56:39 AM by Globe »

Gear Dynamics

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 963
    • View Profile
    • Gear Dynamics
  • Liked: 255
  • Likes Given: 246
Re: 55301 Webbing and Suggested Needle Type
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2018, 10:50:02 PM »
So we’re looking at the bottom side in your picture? How heavy is your bobbin tension?

You should set that so that if you were to put a full bobbin in the bobbin case, pull out 10-12” of thread and let the case dangle, it should just support its own weight. If you raise your hand slightly and then lower it, stopping fairly abruptly, about 6” of thread should come out of the case. Once that is set with the current thread weight, only adjust tension on the top thread, in order to strike a balance.

I would also make sure your top thread path is correct, and you’re not skipping something. Make sure your top tension mechanism is working. Thread the machine and lower the the presser foot. Pull the top thread and you should feel quite a bit of resistance. Raise the foot and pull again and it should pull freely.

I don’t think this is a needle size issue. Usually have thread balance issues if the hole the needle is making is far too large for the thread size. We use size 21 with 69 thread as well, but you should be able to get away with smaller needles. The denser and thicker the material, the bigger the needle you should use, or you may incounter skipped stitches.


SunriseTacticalGear

  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 373
    • View Profile
    • Sunrise Tactical Gear
  • Liked: 107
  • Likes Given: 68
Re: 55301 Webbing and Suggested Needle Type
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2018, 01:11:38 PM »
Welcome aboard ag25. Do us a favor and post an introduction, so we can know a little more about you and maybe able to help you further.
Providing that we are looking at the bottom side of your project, I would check the things already mentioned looking closely at your bottom tension, which I believe could be too tight. I would also suggest cleaning your tension discs for your top thread, over time a waxy build up can accumulate and cause erratic tension issues.
Scott

gearmaker.org

  • gearmaker.org
  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 234
  • gearmaker.org
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 74
  • Likes Given: 38
Re: 55301 Webbing and Suggested Needle Type
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2018, 01:42:27 PM »
Welcome aboard ag25. Do us a favor and post an introduction, so we can know a little more about you and maybe able to help you further.

<snip>


What he said.

ag25

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: 55301 Webbing and Suggested Needle Type
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2018, 07:22:05 PM »
Intro posted!

So we’re looking at the bottom side in your picture? How heavy is your bobbin tension?

You should set that so that if you were to put a full bobbin in the bobbin case, pull out 10-12” of thread and let the case dangle, it should just support its own weight. If you raise your hand slightly and then lower it, stopping fairly abruptly, about 6” of thread should come out of the case. Once that is set with the current thread weight, only adjust tension on the top thread, in order to strike a balance.

Bobbin tension is fairly light. I've even tried reducing it to zero with the same results. I'm not sure I fully understand how you're describing the method of setting the bobbin tension.

I'm skeptical top or bottom tension is the problem. I have no problem dialing in tension for other types of webbing, or other fabrics. Tension disks are brand new, and everything checks out in foot-up and foot-down positions.

Here's a pic to further illustrate my problem, again from the bottom side. I've set my tension so the thread locks when I run in the direction of the webbing. You can see that when I turn 90 degrees to run the stitches across the webbing, the green thread/bobbin thread no longer pulls up into the webbing. To me there is a clear difference when stitching in the different directions.


Gear Dynamics

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 963
    • View Profile
    • Gear Dynamics
  • Liked: 255
  • Likes Given: 246
Re: 55301 Webbing and Suggested Needle Type
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2018, 10:55:11 PM »
I see. When you change direction on webbing, going perpendicular to the warp yarns, parallel with the weft, the top tension appears to loose its strength. What happens when you crank down the top tension? Are you able to tighten it enough to pull that bottom thread up into the webbing? It looks better on the far left stitching? What happened there? If the webbing is really dense, you could try a larger needle size. Bigger hole will make more room for the thread. Out of curiosity, what make is the webbing?

Google a bobbin drop test.

ag25

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: 55301 Webbing and Suggested Needle Type
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2018, 05:03:55 PM »
What happens when you crank down the top tension? Are you able to tighten it enough to pull that bottom thread up into the webbing? It looks better on the far left stitching? What happened there?
Yes. I can crank it enough to pull it through in both directions. At the far left, my guess is since it's the end of the webbing, the ends of the weave are loose which allows the thread to pull though much easier.


If the webbing is really dense, you could try a larger needle size. Bigger hole will make more room for the thread. Out of curiosity, what make is the webbing?

A switched to a size 22 needle which allows me to get enough tension to pull the bobbin thread up if I over-tension it.
The webbing is Solution dyed cordura webbing from Rockywood, so I don't actually know where it was milled.
 http://www.rockywoods.com/1-Solution-Dyed-Nylon-Webbing




BOgear

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
    • BOgear Website
  • Liked: 43
  • Likes Given: 26
Re: 55301 Webbing and Suggested Needle Type
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2018, 08:52:53 PM »
Mate as others have mentioned, from where I sit, it sounds like entirely needle not being matched to the material.

Up size the needle a little more and your problems will likely reduce (but new problems may arise with it). I do not know anything about your machine, but it might be the limit of your machine too with a larger needle. Do a dry run first to ensure needle strike on the shuttle hook doesn't happen.

In a nutshell it looks like the thread is tensioned right when going along the length of webbing as the thread nests down well. But when going perpendicular, the webbing is more densely woven and so the needle is fighting to pull the thread up. Up sizing to a larger needle - #23 for example - will create a larger hole reducing the friction so that thread can be pulled up correctly. Thread tension may need to be adjusted to match this new needle size.

Larger needles also bring their own problems. They are thicker and require more "oomph" to punch through so can't be run on all machines. Plus strike may happen on your shuttle hook - so ALWAYS dry run it first (hand crank) to ensure you don't strike. Once good to go, and sewing normally, you will hear a more solid "thunk" as the needle punches through. You will also have to slow down your speed (or install a needle cooler / thread lubricant system) as the thicker needle creates more friction, which creates more heat. Heat causes nylon thread to melt. You may even see your needle smoking after a run; slow down if this is the case.

Apart from that you seem to be doing all the right things. Just upsize needle even more and you should be good to go!

Cheers,

Dave
BOgear: http://www.bogear.com.au   |   Blog: http://www.bogear.com.au/blog   |   Instagram/Facebook/Twitter: @bogear