Author Topic: Primary Mag Pouch Development  (Read 5775 times)

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Gear Dynamics

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Primary Mag Pouch Development
« on: February 10, 2015, 03:44:39 PM »
Got some pictures of a prototype rifle mag pouch that is being developed. The concept is a mag pouch that will accommodate many different rifle mags, from 5.56mm to 7.62 NATO, without unnecessary bulk or an overly complicated design. The prototype pictured consists of a one piece, semi-rigid, main body and two integrated elastic webbing sides. This allow the pouch to expand and contract, securing the contents, regardless of their shape or size. The interior is also completely snag-free.

If empty, the pouch can be flattened down to minimize it's size. The user can re-insert objects without having to use two hands to pry open the top. By nature of the design, the pouch has a small opening at the bottom that allows drainage and clearing of any debris. This particular prototype also features Whisky Two-Four's unique low-profile attachment system that is incredibly easy to use and adds almost no weight to the design.

What do you guys think? Add secondary retention methods? Shock cody top? Removable lid?

If I could add one feature, it would be an unobtrusive tension adjustment system. If I can figure out a way to modify the design to allow this, without drastically changing the "feel" of the pouch, It'll be gold!











With and FN Mag...

BOgear

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Re: Primary Mag Pouch Development
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2015, 08:10:37 PM »
Very nice! From a design and manufacturing perspective I am loving the clean look.

Is this dual layer, or do you have some rigid plastic sandwiched/laminated in there as well. Just trying to get my head around the manufacturing steps as I can see it was sewn inside out...

Thanks for sharing!
BOgear: http://www.bogear.com.au   |   Blog: http://www.bogear.com.au/blog   |   Instagram/Facebook/Twitter: @bogear

Gear Dynamics

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Re: Primary Mag Pouch Development
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2015, 11:23:52 AM »
There's thin plastic throughout the main body. Without going into too much detail, I will say that the pouch requires some flipping which is a slight pain in the ass, but the result is a very clean, simple design.

essal

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Re: Primary Mag Pouch Development
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2015, 02:11:09 PM »
What do you guys think? Add secondary retention methods? Shock cody top? Removable lid?
What's the intended use and usergroup of the pouch? If they need some type of secondary retention or a lid, then add it. If not, leave it as is since you'll only add to the cost..

Is it possible to get the elastic closer to the bottom? Right now the gap is way too big for my liking.

Gear Dynamics

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Re: Primary Mag Pouch Development
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2015, 04:09:38 PM »
There is no specific user group. Anyone with a rifle that uses magazines (mil, LE, airsoft, milsim etc etc) is a potential customer. Too narrow of an approach to target one specific user group with such a broad application product. For example, some of my mil/SF friends have suggested a removable flap. I have found that for military use, a secondary retention is generally preferred. I know I personally like flaps on my gear when I'm in the bush. The other user groups either don't care or would prefer no flap. For me, it's all about a balance of functionality over cost. If it can be done better, but a little more expensive, then that's what is going to happen.

I hear you on the elastic gap. I don't like how the rounds are partially exposed. Right now it's about 5/8" tall. It would be nice to have it around the 1/4" mark. It might be doable but it's already tight working space for the machine.

essal

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Re: Primary Mag Pouch Development
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2015, 12:50:30 AM »
In my head there are 2 different types of mag pouches, you have a one or a couple which are used as speed reloads (ie easy access both in function and placement) and the rest are means to carry your mags (lids, usually 2 (or 3) mags in each pouch).
Yours right here is clearly the first type. Leave it at that and do not over-complicate it IMO. If you want your clients to have a choice, design another pouch which fits another task.

Now, one issue you might run into, if your clients use G3 or even worse, HK 417 mags, they'll stretch the elastic a lot. If those mags are stored in the pouches over time, the elastic will degrade and most likely quickly loose it's retention (at least on smaller mags). From the looks of it each side has a separate piece of elastic (~1"), that means you'll end up using a lot of it's potential stretch when adding the bigger mags compared to if you have ~5" from one side to another. I guess this is the reason why the HSGI TACOs and the TYR whatever-its-called both use shock cord.

As for the gap, take a look at the PIG mag pouch. Not quite sure if it's doable with elastic, but it could be worth the $20 to check it out.

Gear Dynamics

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Re: Primary Mag Pouch Development
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2015, 02:45:49 AM »
You're right that dudes will generally have one or two "fast" mags and the rest will be stored in closed pouches. This is less important in conventional offensive ops or patrolling, and more so in unique operations, like urban ops where close engagements require fast reloads. I personally see all open top magazine pouches as specific to this type of usage. Overseas, I had some over the top style retention method for all of my magazines. I never carried anything completely open.

As far as the degradation of the elastic is concerned, you're probably right. The interwoven shock cord is definately less prone to loosing it's elasticity with prolonged use than the elastic webbing. I've got some ideas to address this potential issue, as well as the gap. I'll try and do up some prototypes tomorrow and I'll post some pics. In anycase, I appreciate the suggestions and hopefully this will result in a solid product.

Shaddox Tactical

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Re: Primary Mag Pouch Development
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2015, 11:01:22 AM »
Hi guys, let me add my two cents here if I may.  I have a very similar product I have developed and been testing for the past six months I call my Rifle Quick Mag Pouch.
See the quick mention Adam gave it back on November 29th on his FaceBook review site here:https://www.facebook.com/InvictusTactical.  Adam actually got a bit premature in his review because I just asked him to field test it for me and give me some feedback, I didn't know he was going to post it up as I wasn't ready to release it yet

I have had other field testers working them since the summer because I was concernerned about exactly those issues that have already been mentioned above.  I wanted to make sure I had done a lengthy field test to insure the pouches will hold up over time and the elastic would not wear out too soon and I'd have to be refunding or replacing pouches for all my customers.  I'm glad I have because here are some of the things I have learned;

One thing I have discovered is, like essay says, the elastic does gain memory so when the user switches from large magazines like 7.62x51 mags back to 5.56 mags the elastic will have stretched out to accommodate the larger mag and will not hold the smaller mag as well. This hasn't shown to be a problem if the mags are only in the pouches for a short duration such as a day at the range and then unloaded and allowed to relax, but if the pouches are left loaded for any extended period of time they will conform to the larger shape and retain memory.

I was also concerned about the gap on the sides at the bottom.  I use 4" elastic on mine and the gap is pretty big on my large size. About one inch.  So I was also concerned about the possibility of cartridges getting pushed out or jammed.  So far none of my field testers have experienced this.  Maybe they just haven't done the right action to cause it or maybe the magazine feed lips in conjunction with the pouch offer enough to retain the cartridges.

As for over secondary retention, that is also an issue I have been trying to address.  Initially when I came up with the idea I wanted a simpler less complicated and therefor less expensive version of the HSGI Taco that looked slick and clean just like Gear Dynamics is doing.  So my first versions had no additional retention.  After some feedback from two of my testers who are on a local law enforcement tactical teem and recommended an additional form of retention I started messing around with a removable bungee strap.  My first optional bungee version was simple but ugly and looked unprofessional.  What I did was burn a hole through the top center outer face and rout the shock cord through that and then back through the PALs on the back and secure it with a cord-lock so the end user could add or remove it as they needed depending on their requirements.

After deciding that the burn hole was easy but ugly I saw WTF's Hypalon system and thought "By George that's just what I need"  Both the WTFix backing system to cut down weight and get rid of the MALICE Clips and the bungee anchors he uses on the front are much better.  So I made a quick test version with my own hand cut Hypalon tab for the shock cord that also acts as a pull tab for reseating a magazine back in the pouch and have been testing  this version while I impatiently waite for my WTFix samples to arrive. I have been pulling my hair out for the past couple of months wanting to move forward with this product but not wanting to release it with a the MALICE System first.





« Last Edit: February 13, 2015, 02:34:25 AM by Shaddox Tactical »
Clay- Shaddox Tactical LLC

Jorvik

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Re: Primary Mag Pouch Development
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2015, 02:26:09 PM »
I'd like to add picture to this to show the evolution of my three versions so far but I can't figure out how to add images here.  Do I need to have them hosted somewhere else first?
Yes, I'd strongly suggest an imgur account. Totally free. It even creates the BBCode for you to copy and paste into a comment here.

Shaddox Tactical

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Re: Primary Mag Pouch Development
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2015, 02:43:46 PM »
Thanks for the help Jorvik.  I figured out how to do it with DropBox and it seems to be working.  Or not.

Okay, now I am using Photobucket and it seems to be working.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2015, 02:35:47 AM by Shaddox Tactical »
Clay- Shaddox Tactical LLC

Gear Dynamics

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Re: Primary Mag Pouch Development
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2015, 03:07:37 PM »
Clay, I don't see any images...

WhiskeyTwoFour

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Re: Primary Mag Pouch Development
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2015, 04:18:50 PM »
Try logging out of your Dropbox and see if they still show up.  I'm betting only the account owner can see the pics.

Shaddox Tactical

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Re: Primary Mag Pouch Development
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2015, 12:44:46 PM »
Yeah, unfortunately I was fooled thinking that DropBox worked.  WTF was right only I can see the images from DropBox.  I'm using Photoshop and it's seems to be working now.  Images are up. 
Clay- Shaddox Tactical LLC

jw9673

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Re: Primary Mag Pouch Development
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2015, 10:11:09 AM »
A suggestion for a removable flap.. I build something similar to a BFG 10 speed for my own use, only I use 3in web as the backer for ease with my limited sewing talents, but I add a 2in wide strip of loop material the length in the pouch to the inside, I do this because I run a 1"x1" square of Hook on all my mags for additional retention, and a 1in strip of loop down the front of the elastic, . Recently I took a piece of 2" web and added 2 tabs of hook, this fits inside the pouch then wraps over the top of the mag and attaches to the loop strip on the front. easy and adjustable up and down for mag height. Flap could be made of Hypalon for that cool factor and easy sizing for inside of mag pouch.

Stepan1983

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Re: Primary Mag Pouch Development
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2015, 11:59:54 AM »
For AK magazines you should reinforce internal side walls. It will destroy the elastic webbing.