Author Topic: Modular Belt System (Prototype)  (Read 4916 times)

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Gear Dynamics

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Modular Belt System (Prototype)
« on: March 26, 2016, 06:29:10 PM »
Concept belt system, designed to fill the traditional battle belt roll while maintaining a very streamlined footprint. It is still in the prototype phase so there may be some design changes.

The system consists of liner belt, modular sleeve and a main belt. The liner belt replaces your regular pants belt and features a low profile Velcro closure. The outer face is covered with Velcro loop, which engages the modular sleeve and prevents the system from shifting or riding up.

The sleeve itself is only three inches tall and less than 3/8" thick. At it's core, It is constructed out of a proprietary combination of LDPE and Neoprene, making it an excellent blend of flexibility and rigidity. The outside of the sleeve is made up of segmented panels, beneath which there is a channel for the main belt to pass through. The panels allow the user to route the main belt along the outside to attach belt mounted accessories. As well, at the bottom of each panel there is a slot that allows access to the inside channel for the attachment of sub-loads.

The main belt pictured here is a single layer, load bearing belt, that uses an AustriAlpin D-Ring Cobra. There will likely be a few different belt options to choose from. Most 1.5" - 1.75" rigger's belts will work, so if the user already has a belt that they like, they will be able to use that.

As always, I'm interested in feedback and opinions. If anyone has any suggestions or comments, fire away. The two things I'd love to improve are:

1) Somehow eliminating the need for Velcro on the inside, while still providing an effect method of preventing the system from riding up. Velcro is the best solution I've found so far.

2) Eliminating the sewn on webbing. I'd love to replace the webbing with a laser cut Cordura laminate. That would drastically shorten the assembly time and make the system lighter and lower profile. If anyone knows a business willing to provide laminated laser cut parts, I'd be interested.


mogensbeck

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Re: Modular Belt System (Prototype)
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2016, 11:21:19 AM »
What colour of laminate are you interresting in.

WhiskeyTwoFour

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Re: Modular Belt System (Prototype)
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2016, 11:47:30 AM »
A lot of thought went to that belt.  It's come a long way.

We're reviewing RFPs from three US mills and a local custom short run aramid laminating shop.  Intent is to initially offer 330D Multicam laminated to an engineered fabric.  Base engineered fabric will be tan 499 for compatibility with contract jobs.  Specs of engineered fabric base TBD.  Full and proper specs, certs, and chain of custody will be available for contract and spec jobs.  Finished laser cut parts are no problem.

Gear Dynamics

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Re: Modular Belt System (Prototype)
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2016, 12:39:44 PM »
Ideally, I'd like to offer as many colour options as possible, so 500D Cordura would be the best choice for an outer material. Most camo companies will generally stock 500D in all their patterns. The base material should be thin and light, but add strength to the Cordura.

I'm OK with any of the following options:

a) They provide the fabric, do the laminating and laser cut a finished part (preferred), OR

b) I provide fabric, they laminate and laser cut, OR

c) I provide fabric, they laminate, I cut.

The colours I'd be interested in are:

- MultiCam
- Coyote Brown
- Black
- Ranger Green
- PenCott GreenZone

Nice to have:

- MultiCam Black
- MultiCam Tropic
- Kryptek Highlander
- PenCott Badlands
- Kryptek Typhon
- Kryptek Mandrake


Gear Dynamics

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Re: Modular Belt System (Prototype)
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2016, 09:01:27 AM »
Here's one in MultiCam Tropic


Gear Dynamics

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Re: Modular Belt System (Prototype)
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2017, 05:16:28 PM »
UPDATE:

After playing with different laminate panel designs, this is the latest belt sleeve. It's still only 3" tall, but now only 1/4" thick and weighs approx 5oz, thanks to the reduction in materials that laminate provides. The sleeve is constructed from 2mm foam, laminated to 500D Cordura, with an added LDPE plastic core. Binding tape was used to "link" all the panels together, and allow the possibility of opening up slots for sub-loads. This particular one does not have that option, and the panels are simply sewn the full length. Bar tacks are used to reinforce the ends. We tried versions that used binding tape around the whole perimeter, but no possibility for sub-load slots. The inner belt is single layer construction and has a portion of Velcro Loop on the inside, that grabs another patch, located inside the sleeve, thus preventing the belt from rotating.

Let me know what you guys think!


BEA-RD

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Re: Modular Belt System (Prototype)
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2017, 09:02:39 PM »
I dig it, very HSLD. Only suggestion, I feel rounded ends are aesthetically better then 45's. Build a small in CB and if you dont like it better then the 45'ed version, ill buy it, and if you like it more, ill buy it 😉

Edit: I just noticed you have a 2x2 (the stacked pals), if you do a full length slit for the bottom row it would allow for sub-load attachments which would be bitch'in.

Again, kudos. A+ kit right there.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2017, 09:25:12 PM by BEA-RD »

Gear Dynamics

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Re: Modular Belt System (Prototype)
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2017, 10:14:56 PM »
Thanks for the input! The full length slot is an interesting idea. Didn't even think of that as an option. I was gonna try securing the whole PALS apparatice with a series of bar tacks, instead of continuous stitching. That will make gaps behind the panels, that can be wide or narrow. I can try a rounded end, but the angles are easier to make look really sharp...they are also kinda my thing!

Gear Dynamics

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Re: Modular Belt System (Prototype)
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2017, 10:48:19 PM »
Also, in addition to sub-load access, I've got some other ideas to improve the whole design.

1) I'd love to have a simple, removable stiffener. Nothing crazy, but somehow being able to slide a piece or .060 HDPE into a sleeve might be cool.
2) Keep or remove the inner Velcro hook. There is a 2"x4" patch of Velcro hook, midline, behind the panels. This is also how I cleanly close off the cordura seam.
3) Develop some sort of ultra low profile strip with Velcro Loop on one side and something "grippy" on the other. This would allow the sleeve to be worn over top of clothing, without the need for a Liner Belt.
4) Remove the binding tape and replace with 500D Cordura??? This one might be tricky to execute cleanly. The reason would be to allow a perfect colour match. Especially if more exotic laminates become available.

Any ideas for these areas would be greatly appreciated.

BEA-RD

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Re: Modular Belt System (Prototype)
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2017, 11:34:40 PM »
Also, in addition to sub-load access, I've got some other ideas to improve the whole design.

1) I'd love to have a simple, removable stiffener. Nothing crazy, but somehow being able to slide a piece or .060 HDPE into a sleeve might be cool.
2) Keep or remove the inner Velcro hook. There is a 2"x4" patch of Velcro hook, midline, behind the panels. This is also how I cleanly close off the cordura seam.
3) Develop some sort of ultra low profile strip with Velcro Loop on one side and something "grippy" on the other. This would allow the sleeve to be worn over top of clothing, without the need for a Liner Belt.
4) Remove the binding tape and replace with 500D Cordura??? This one might be tricky to execute cleanly. The reason would be to allow a perfect colour match. Especially if more exotic laminates become available.

Any ideas for these areas would be greatly appreciated.

Removable stiffner, yeah, i like that.I had my original GG battle belt in patent pending it had a hidden, floating subload strap (aka: scuba webbing, lol), but you didnt have to connect to the main belt so you wouldnt get the "cowboy holster" effect... soo fucking basic but sometimes basics just work.

Ill find the drawings and post em' ..

EDIT: if there is open space..add loop. Lol. I dont think you can ever go wrong with loop on the inside of a belt.

if your going to kick the gross then i would fold and top stitch her up nice orrrrrrrr inside out would be sexy also.

Edit:
« Last Edit: February 11, 2017, 09:02:46 AM by BEA-RD »

stimpy

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Re: Modular Belt System (Prototype)
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2017, 02:13:01 AM »
About the removable stiffener.. I own a hsgi battle belt, and it has a removable stiffener. The sleeve has the tendency to turn around the stiffener because of the weight of pouches and a dropleg holster. It is common problem, i have seen it on other hsgi battle belts as well. And if i was you i would go for a stiffener that is fixed and preferably sewn to all the layers. If you want i can post some pictures of the hsgi, but that will take at least a week, because i am not at my regular workplace atm..

Gear Dynamics

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Re: Modular Belt System (Prototype)
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2017, 12:05:10 PM »
Sorry, the pictures don't lend themselves to showing off the construction. Without going into great detail, I should better explain the assembly. The sleeve is essentially two major parts; one is the padded body, and the other is the PALS panel assembly. The body is assembled first using laminated foam and LDPE "wrapped" in Cordura. It is sewn inside out, then flipped, no exposed seams. The PALS assembly is simply individual laminate panels, bound together along the top and bottom. The reason it was done this way was so that they would be stronger together, and so that panels could be easily added or subtracted during the build process to accomodate different sizes. The PALS assembly is sewn on after all the Velcro is attached to the body. Tons of battle belts are made by simply sandwiching layers together and then binding around the whole thing. We tried this and didn't like it. The binding doesn't handle curves nicely and we just aren't set up to do it properly.

When I'm talking about modifying for the capability of sub-load access, the picture below is a good illustration. Replace the continuous stitching, with bar tacks.



For the stiffener, I envision it being a long strip of plastic that would slide into a dedicated slot, running the length of the sleeve. Doesn't need to be as wide as the sleeve, maybe only 2". This could be accomplished by adding a layer of Cordura behind the PALS panels, but having a clean, discreet closure would be necessary.

The Velcro I'm talking about keeping or ditching, is strictly for locking in the main belt to prevent it from slipping through the sleeve. Any rigger belt will work, as long as it has corresponding loop on the inside of it.



The back of the sleeve, also has a long strip of Velcro hook, used to anchor it to a pants belt, and prevent the whole thing from shifting when running and changing positions. I would like to design something to fasten to that so the user doesn't need to always wear a pants belt with Velcro loop.

Beard, thanks for your comments. I like your diagrams, but I feel like adding more webbing will defeat the purpose of this low profile setup. It's a neat idea for sure. My purpose for the stiffener is to counter those who would overload the belt. I feel like a stiff inner belt would solve the issue of sub-load pulling.

Stimpy, I've seen (and used) the original HSGI Suregrip, and I found it very sloppy without the HDPE insert. I don't recall the belt shifting around the stiffener ever, but I only used it for a short period.


BEA-RD

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Re: Modular Belt System (Prototype)
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2017, 01:06:07 PM »
Sorry, the pictures don't lend themselves to showing off the construction. Without going into great detail, I should better explain the assembly. The sleeve is essentially two major parts; one is the padded body, and the other is the PALS panel assembly. The body is assembled first using laminated foam and LDPE "wrapped" in Cordura. It is sewn inside out, then flipped, no exposed seams. The PALS assembly is simply individual laminate panels, bound together along the top and bottom. The reason it was done this way was so that they would be stronger together, and so that panels could be easily added or subtracted during the build process to accomodate different sizes. The PALS assembly is sewn on after all the Velcro is attached to the body. Tons of battle belts are made by simply sandwiching layers together and then binding around the whole thing. We tried this and didn't like it. The binding doesn't handle curves nicely and we just aren't set up to do it properly.

When I'm talking about modifying for the capability of sub-load access, the picture below is a good illustration. Replace the continuous stitching, with bar tacks.



For the stiffener, I envision it being a long strip of plastic that would slide into a dedicated slot, running the length of the sleeve. Doesn't need to be as wide as the sleeve, maybe only 2". This could be accomplished by adding a layer of Cordura behind the PALS panels, but having a clean, discreet closure would be necessary.

The Velcro I'm talking about keeping or ditching, is strictly for locking in the main belt to prevent it from slipping through the sleeve. Any rigger belt will work, as long as it has corresponding loop on the inside of it.



The back of the sleeve, also has a long strip of Velcro hook, used to anchor it to a pants belt, and prevent the whole thing from shifting when running and changing positions. I would like to design something to fasten to that so the user doesn't need to always wear a pants belt with Velcro loop.

Beard, thanks for your comments. I like your diagrams, but I feel like adding more webbing will defeat the purpose of this low profile setup. It's a neat idea for sure. My purpose for the stiffener is to counter those who would overload the belt. I feel like a stiff inner belt would solve the issue of sub-load pulling.

Stimpy, I've seen (and used) the original HSGI Suregrip, and I found it very sloppy without the HDPE insert. I don't recall the belt shifting around the stiffener ever, but I only used it for a short period.

Ahh, things are cleared up now. Didnt someone say you could be vague and still get everything across, this is a perfect example of how hard that is,lol. Anyways, looks like you got it down pretty pat brother and I would keep the velcro because anti-shift is always a nice feature.

I do have to disagree just from experience about a stiff inner belt fixes pull. Battle belts & Armor/Plate carriers have always been my most pleasurable builds thus they are the ones Ive spent most of my 15years focusing on, so Ive done endless amounts of versions. But what always stayed common was if the subload attached to the inner belt (Ive even done double layer scuba with HDPE sandwiched in the middle) you would get weight shift plus pull from movement, the best analogy I give to customers is this: "Its not about the stiffness, the problem lies on the weight from the subload when your putting the belt on. Magicians use the same concept/effect to get out of rope tricks, they grow themselves by flexing or sucking breath, the person from the crowd are indeed wrapping and knotting the rope super tight but its tight to essentially a larger object so when the magician relaxes the rope becomes slack" .....  ;)

IMO you want flex/give/movement with the subload mount to help with pulling while in motion.


Gear Dynamics

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Re: Modular Belt System (Prototype)
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2017, 04:30:07 PM »
Beard, I get the issue that your are solving. Totally makes sense now. Having a separate "line" to hang the sub-load allows more flexibility. Wouldn't even need to be webbing necessarily, so long as it's strong and it's not tacked too tightly.

Stoner63A

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Re: Modular Belt System (Prototype)
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2017, 04:35:40 PM »
That's a nice frickin' belt, G-D.   I'd buy that in Multicam and Ranger Green just for my own personal use.